These transcripts are AI-generated, and spelling may not be 100% accurate (especially for names, places, and methodologies).
I guess in being able to pace myself
I think that’s probably one of the biggest
things that I’ve really applied in my own life
is not trying to do more than I actually can
not trying to be everything to everybody
I guess being comfortable with growing slowly and putting
the effort into building scaffolding and structures
Hello everybody and Welcome to The Healthy Business Lab Podcast
where we interview amazing allied health practice business owners
to learn great insights from them
and today I’m super excited to have somebody
that I know for a number of years now
Jacintha Bell from Life Works OT
Welcome to the podcast to Jacintha
Thanks Craig! I’m excited to be here
yeah well
I love for you to share a little bit of your background
and as you touch on there
you’re obviously
a practice owner yourself and you do work in the OT space
and I love for you to sort of share a bit of a background
about yourself and your expertise
and I sort of come from this angle of also with that expertise
how have you sort of use that skill set in
your life and business as well
okay I’ll give it my best shot
so I started I was a mental health OT
worked in the government for quite a long time
and the public health system
and I saw a gap about 11 years ago or so
and I also wanted to have a little bit more flexibility
around my work schedule so I started my own business
which was probably in a very intrepid thing to do
with very little skill set
actually knowing anything about running a business
but I did just from my lounge room
and it was just me to start off with
and then organically it did grow over time
and my business is really focused on mental health OT and also pain OT
and chronic condition OT so it was very OT focused
but in that that sort of realm I guess niche area of mental health
pain chronic conditions
and one thing I do remember sort of saying to myself at the time
because I knew
I didn’t really know very much about running a business was look
I’m just going to be open to whatever comes across my you know
whatever opportunities arise
I’m just going to be open to them
didn’t mean I was going to necessarily do everything
but at least went down the pathway of each thing that came up
a little way
to see whether it was something that would be helpful to me
or would be something that
I could expand or grow
that was really a good in hindsight now I look back and I go
that was a really good way to approach it
because I didn’t know what I didn’t know and
I needed to look for opportunities to learn and grow
I love that hmm
that’s so good, a couple of like
big sort of things that I’m taking away
and will delve deeper on each of those
want to definitely come back to where you just were talking about there
of exploring little bits of pieces and again
it’s obviously use the word experiments a bunch as well
so we’ll dig into a few of those
because I’m sure there’s plenty of insights and learnings that
our listeners can get from that
but I also just want to circle back from
your focus on mental health
the pain, the chronic sort of health idea
and if we’re I’m always very conscious of as a business owner
we need to look after ourselves
and knowing myself of when I’m in a good mental space and pain
I’ve got a few things going on with the body
and when I’m in have
those pain we’ve been working through a bunch of that myself recently
I know the impact that then has on running a business as well
so I’d love for you to sort of share a little bit around how you work
and how you focus on those sorts of areas
and I guess that relation to business owners that are out there
that maybe OT’s themselves or others in the allied health space
that sometimes we don’t practice what we preach
I know I do that on the consulting side sometimes
some of those little reminders of how people would use the knowledge
and especially your expertise
into having them set up to be working at
as optimal level as they can be
as a business owner yeah
obviously, like yourself I’ve had to apply lots of my skills to myself
and yeah
it’s been quite helpful to have that background
I guess in being able to pace myself
I think that’s probably one of the biggest
things that I’ve really applied in my own life
is not trying to do more than I actually can
not trying to be everything to everybody
I guess being comfortable with growing slowly and putting
the effort into building scaffolding and structure so that
I’m not doing a sort of a what I would call in my profession
a boom and bust kind of approach
which is where
you have one day you feel good you go right
I’m going to launch all these new things and start all these new projects
and then you burn yourself out yeah
three days later you’re like on your couch can’t move
can’t talk to anybody
so trying to look at what’s actually sustainable
for me to do and it’s not always what you want to be able to do
and when you first start out
you are everything you know
you are doing your own marketing
and you’re doing your own advertising from the lounge room
that’s what you started off back in the day
wasn’t it yeah
that’s right you’re doing every single part of it
so definitely, being able to pace yourself
and take it slowly
I think probably focusing on building one aspect at a time
and prioritising what that is
and that’s certainly how we would apply
my skills in my work as well with my clients
and then probably
something came up recently that really prompted me to think about
as I’ve grown and I’ve had more people that I’ve been managing
and a lot more of my role has transitioned into business strategy
and managing people is that
especially in our profession
which is a helping profession
where you want to be able to help people problem solve and deliver
answers to problems that people have
is that you can actually create a rod for your own back
if you’re the person that everybody comes to all the time to answer
to solve all the issues that come up
it limits the business to then what your time
availability is and it’s the same in my work with my clients
so we try and help people become
independent in being able to self manage
their health and their conditions in their life
and it’s the same really as a business owner
I’ve got to the point where
I really want to focus on ensuring that the people in my business
are able to self manage to a degree
so, I’m not the person who
essentially I become a little bit obsolete almost yeah
if we make ourselves out of a job in some ways
that’s not a bad thing
I think it comes to that idea of working on the business
rather than in the business
yeah people get to that phase in that stage
that’s exactly what we want to do for our clients
is get them to a point where they don’t need us anymore
and they can go out confidently and live their life and
they’ve now got the skills to be able to do that
and that’s exactly what we want for them too
I love that and again
if you think of that idea that you just sort of a coin there
that self management idea from an individual to a team member
to the owner if we can do that and at the end of the day
you’re kind of modelling that across all those different areas
but it still comes back to that same core sentiment
and if we’re doing that as it’s a nice little
you know
I’ve come back to another word you used before
the structure and the scaffolding
it’s sort of just building these lovely layers upon layers
that at the end of the day
builds up the capacity all around
yeah and like you said it is a bit of an experiment
you don’t know what’s going to work
and I think some of the skill comes in trying things out
and then making a decision when they
if they’re not working yeah
over the years again
you ran a business 11 odd years and going from the one person
shopper through to having 20 odd team members
or whatever the numbers are currently at the moment
but yeah, I’d love to hear some of those paths you went down
some of the ones that worked that you’re still doing
even though you might be evolving them
but even some of the ones that helped you sort of course correct
or tweak or change
dig deeper on a few of those
sure a couple of things that stand out probably around recruitment
marketing and
finance would be the probably three areas that
which I didn’t know anything about really
I’d done recruitment in the health department
which is a very onerous process
it’s a big process
yeah I’ve been there myself
yeah on the finance side
it’s yeah
oh man
yeah it’s painful
yeah it is
it’s painful
and so I think first of all
probably one of the things I did do
when I got to a point where I thought
I need to be responsible for other people now
I need to make sure that I’m doing all the right things
my governance is good is that I did engage with a business coach
someone who was specific to Allied Health who knew our industry well
and I try I did try out a few and I found one that I
I felt like I could relate to really well
and that was a big help in terms of
I guess some of the overall concepts
and changing my mindset from being a clinician to being
a business owner and doing what’s necessary for the business
as opposed to just focusing on my clients
so that was probably one big thing that I did
and I continue to engage in various
different types of business coaching
as I need it usually one at a time
and focusing perhaps on different aspects of the business
coming back to your boom or bust idea as well of hey
just having a component which again
I know it’s something that
that I’ve done in the past myself where it’s like I’ve
engaged a few different people at the same time
and I’m trying to do
all of the different coaching components
but I’m against very similar to you at the moment
it’s that notion of going well
just have one for a very core thing
that’s focusing on
that and get the support in that area
yes get that nailed down
then yeah move on to
the next area that’s right
and then you can really focus your attention on it
in a way that it’s too hard to do
if you’re going all different directions at once
it’s quite a challenge
so that’s one thing I did with recruitment
I was a bit lucky in the beginning
I actually wasn’t even trying to recruit
I had people approaching me
and they were people I’d already worked with and
you know really valued them as a colleague
and already knew they had a wonderful work ethic
and similar values so that was a bit lucky
it was beginner’s luck
I think it’s an interesting topic because yeah
I just recorded a recent episode as well
where that person talk about the same thing
that I didn’t necessarily need to recruit
and for me I actually don’t think it’s luck
it’s in that notion of
you position yourself as somebody in the space
in the field that was doing some cool things
and you built great relationships
which actually enabled that to happen
but people want to work with this person
so, I would suggest that it wasn’t actually luck
but again
it was from a whole lot of work that you’d put in over the sure
the time proceeding that to do that
I’d say well yes
in hindsight there’s that’s true
and there’s probably some
unconscious marketing and branding that was occurring that
wasn’t necessarily setting out to do that
but I was networking a lot with people
I think that’s an interesting thing
so I think that interesting takeaway is that you’re sharing that
it’s like oh
I was doing a bunch of networking at the time
I think that’s a cool sometimes we do feel
I know I’ve done lots of networking in the part at past
and you’re kind of like I’m doing this network
I know these conversations
but not really going anywhere
but then all of a sudden
six months down the track or five years down the track
something goes boom boom boom
and it all actually happened because of one or two conversations
I might have had all that time ago
so that’s right
I think that’s an interesting one for listeners to sort of really
I said lean into is that
all conversations matter
and it does speak to a personal brand of sorts again
it may not be a direct intentional thing
but if we’re actually conscious of it
it’s like okay, yeah
I am building something in the space
whether I’m a team member or
whatever it is or a business owner that’s always still building
yeah cool
yes that’s true
and then, there was a point where I did take people on board that
at some point went oh
this is actually not working
and that was a big learning experience for me
and the rest of our practice because we did invest
time and resources into getting new people started
and i guess, we need to learn how to recruit people that are better aligned
with our values and that is actually
the core factor that is required and we’re still not perfect at it
you know you can’t always know that you get it right
but through my business coaching
one of the things I learned was hire slow
fire fast so not necessarily firing people left
right and center but
but just basically this concept that
don’t ever hire because you’re desperate
which we have now moved into that zone of going okay
now we take our time we don’t feel pressured to take someone on
if they don’t meet our criteria
and by criteria I include
gut instincts as well so people are very
pretty attuned actually to sort of seeing whether someone in
is a good fit in our value system and going through a
a structured a recruitment process where it is helpful
we do a phone interview first and then
we invite people in for a face to face interview and
and we do look at their
referees and where we do actually follow through all those things
and I think it helps for the person too
to ensure that it’s a right fit for them
cause we want it to be obviously
two way street at the end of the day
exactly
they’re interviewing you as much as you’re interviewing them
exactly in the modern day
yep and we really want to take on board
people who are very passionate about the work that we do particularly
that has sort of that really influences how we would
consider people for a role
and then look when people have started we do to give lots of support
and usually within the first three months
we can get to a point and
and usually the person has also got to a point where they’ve decided
whether this is for them or it’s not
and at that point we try to then encourage people
to look elsewhere if it’s not for them
because there’s no point and as helping professionals
we do have struggle a little bit with this concept of
we want to boost people up and support them to be the
the best that they can be and put in place whatever scaffolding
they need in order to
get that point and we always have hope that people can achieve that
but I think what we’ve learned to do a lot better is to go
actually it’s okay
for someone to be in a position where they’re not actually a good fit
and it’s actually better for them and for us that
we let that go have a natural attrition
and rather than trying to continue to prop someone up in a role
that perhaps they’re not feeling comfortable in
it doesn’t do us well
to do that yeah yeah
and I love that not come back to you
a comment you made a couple of times
which is and very pertinent to helping professionals
and that idea of
we’re actually helping somebody by not having them stay in somewhere
that’s not going to be a fit for them long term
and we’re going to actually help them
and shifting the some of the
I’ve got the right words in front of me
but it’s that way of being out of
tweak a perspective on what is still helping
and that the common thing is giving somebody a job is helping
but there’s also giving somebody
the not ideal job isn’t actually helping
so actually leaning back into that that idea
which if you actually go back to that grounded space of as
helping professionals it’s what we do
and I love that you’ve
sort of referred to that a few times here so
it’s great and
any other couple of experiments there
you talk about the recruiting
yes marketing and yeah
marketing again thing that
helping professionals in general are pretty uncomfortable with
selling themselves in any way
shape or form very
uncomfortable space so part of it is a mindset shift
you know that we’re not actually selling ourselves
we’re educating people about what we do
because how do people find us if
they don’t know we exist
yeah, obviously did some through business coaching
you know did some learning around marketing and also being ethical
marketing ethically and in accordance with all the
rules that we have around marketing health practices in Australia
but also
had a trialled a few different things trialled a
an offshore
a person for our digital marketing
I’d say that was not really successful for us
and the reason being is that none of us really knew what
the heck we were doing
we actually needed someone to tell us
what needs to happen and that person needed us to tell them what
they need to do so that
there was no leader in that
I love that
having a leader in the space is something that is super important
and knowing where you’re coming from there
I haven’t tried the the offshore for the marketing
I’ve got some support in that
but right now it’s this idea of
we’re going to look to do some lunch and learns
and some workshops and those sorts of things
but it was kind of like right now
who knows what and what level to actually be able to get the outcome
and it’s like oh
I’ve actually I’ll put more framework around this to begin with
otherwise everybody’s just running around without any real clue
centered back to what are we actually doing here yeah
I love your comment right at the end there
it’s like somebody needs to be the leader initially
it usually needs to be the business owner
but then it’s do we business owner finds the right other person
yes to do that so yeah so how is that gone
is that experiments evolved
hmm yes
well that was really I would call that throwing
mud at the wall and seeing what sticks
in that arrangement and we did that for a year
and we went that this is definitely not working until
look for another arrangement
then we have engaged a digital marketing service that
still needs some input from us obviously
because I did learn from one of my business coaching
that you never want to give over control of your marketing
entirely to another an external provider
because we want to always be certain that
what is being marketed is actually what we are doing yes
it’s got to really follow our values and our brand
but we did find an agency that were skilled in allied health
understood Australian regulations and knew more about
what they could give us more direction about what needed to be done
and they could also do the technical aspects
so far
and that’s what we’re working with at the moment
so far that it is working
and I think perhaps the next layer to that might be engaging
and a consultant of some sort
who is actually looking at market research
and a little bit more deep dive
strategy at a higher level of what is going to work for us
cause obviously
that’s digital marketing that this other agency is doing
so things like website, social media
email, newsletters
etcetera
but there is a lot of other marketing that we do as a business
write down to our reports are marketing
because when you’re writing a report and sending it to a specialist
that’s telling them how you do your work
and that does lead to sometimes more work from that person
I love that thought process
I just wanna highlight there
this notion of
reports are marketing the quality of them
I just saw in one of the groups that I’m in
commentary around reports that been sent out
you could tell that they had a big base of AI in them
and obviously there’s regulations around that as well
but even if we’re
still ticking all those boxes
if we’re not putting our own component on it
something can be obviously not from a fully from a person or again
the message doesn’t feel right
that hundred percent speaks to marketing
doesn’t it yes
it does
so, that’s kind of where that’s at
so I would say we’re still learning
and I would say that marketing is not just external
that we actually have to do marketing
you might call it communications
marketing applications internally
with your own team to ensure that everybody’s on the same page
that where everyone’s on board with
whatever changes are happening
which is constant I mean change is just constant
that’s the only thing that is constant is change yeah
and so, managing that change regularly
checking in with people keeping sure everyone’s at
abreast of things and and feeling like they have some ownership
over what changes are occurring
is really important
well, appreciate those shares on the marketing
and you also touched upon the finance as well
which you know I love to talk about
so we have to sort of touch base on that
and obviously
I’m aware of some of your experiments in that space as well
love for you to share and your continual evolution and growth
and even what you talked about there
you’re always learning you’re always growing
you’re always evolving in each of those things on the finance side
how have you done that
yeah so the finance side
I would say that’s probably the area I struggled the most with
as a budding business owner
I had absolutely no strategy
when I started and having been a government employee for a long time
it was
managing finances was pretty apart from your household kind of stuff
usually you got a tax return at the end of the year
it was pretty minimal yeah
yep that’s right not enough money to pay the bills
that’s right it was pretty minor involvement
and despite having been fairly good at maths at school
I have to say that
spreadsheets just absolutely look like gobbledy gook to me
and honestly
they still do even though I’ve tried a lot to learn them
I think it’s just must be a
maybe you have to do a whole accounting degree or something
for that to actually start
I know plenty of people that have done those and
still question mark
that their understanding of spread sheets
profit and loss and balance sheets
I feel like I’ve learned a bit more
they look more familiar to me than they did when I started
but I still find it
a little bit of a challenge
so I did have an accountant to start at the start
who was just my accountant that did my previous
tax returns etcetera
and that was a good start
starting person but there was a point where I went
I actually need a bit more knowledge and
I moved to an accountant who specialised in health practices and again
that helped in my development
I gradually understood more and more
and they helped a bit with the company structure
etcetera
so that was really good and very helpful
and I did it points
meet monthly with the accountant to try and facilitate my learning
but I knew I was really missing
i mean, honestly my problem was that what the accountant
and the way that the accountant looks at things
is very different from how I look at things
and I just could never switch over to that perspective
and so when he was talking to me about
the money I would look at it and go
but where is that money like
it’s not in the bank
like I can’t
it feels so foreign to me
it’s like it’s imaginary money really to me in my head
it’s just it’s not really real
and I was kind of dealing with the day to day issues of cash flow
and wanting to make sure I kept enough funds in the bank
to pay for the cost that were
coming up
and I just really couldn’t make sense of the way in which accountants
work and look
my long suffering accountant
he did his best for sure to try and explain it to me
and help me to learn but I just really couldn’t
and I knew when I was
got to the point where I was flogging a dead horse
I was like oh
I just this is
you’re asking the same questions over and over again
you’re not getting the answers that help you progress
which again you’ve shown a
process of wanting to learn
and needing to get to a certain point of that
and so yeah
and so I got to this point where I actually
maybe it came out through my other business coaching
someone recommended a Profit First
which I’d never heard of before
and I went ah
I’ll check that out so I got the audio book because that’s what I do
try and do my learning when I’m
going for a walk or something
there’s not a lot of extra time to do all of that
and to be honest with you
it just made sense to me and
it really talked to me as someone who was like
I just don’t understand these balance sheets
and profit and loss statements
when it doesn’t actually reflect how much money I have and
so that was really eye opening to me and I thought great
well now I need to see how I can implement this system
because I feel like that could work for me
I did ask my accountant about it
he said look out
you know it’s not really something he works with
he doesn’t really know much about it
so he suggested I perhaps look for someone else
I did look around
there’s a few people in Australia who
work with that system
I came across yourself Craig
I think Profit First Professionals
yeah that was and
I was particularly drawn to you Craig because again
you had skill set that was particular to my industry
and I do find that
over the time that I’ve been looking for guidance and advice
I find if someone has actually got a skill set in my industry
it does make a big difference
for example
marketing experts who don’t know about the health industry regulations
can be completely barking
at the wrong tree in terms of recommending
you get testimonials and things that are
not possible
so that was our first introduction and
I have to say Craig
it was a game changer for me really
in being able to
finally understand my finances in a way that made sense to me
and meant that I could manage my cash flow
and understand what I needed to do
that peace of mind of knowing that I have got funds aside
for all the costs that I need to make sure I’m paying
my payroll my tax obligations
my superannuation
all the things that I have to make sure I pay
and then trying to focus on making sure there’s some leftover for me
which again obviously as you know
we like to flip that a little bit
and make sure there’s some there for yourself
as that’s right owner
and obviously make sure that we work sustainably
which again if you think full circle to what you’ve talked about here
where you’re talking it right at
the top of the discussion about sustainability
building the layers in being all these things
and its what you’ve done is exactly the same in the finance space
which is been lovely to hear
these sort of three main experiment
that you’ve done that in each of them
and you can sort of you really highlighted that methodical
so to speak a consistent approach to just chipping away at it
and coming from that financial side of being able to say well
if I’m going around in circles here
I need to find the next little layer of the thing
that’s going to work for me
and obviously as you’ve alluded to
we find the Profit First methodology helps
a lot of people that have that similar sort of challenge
or the accountants just do the accounting and they yeah
don’t really know how to speak the language of a business owner
because they’re stuck in accounting talk
and they’re like so
that’s great to get that feedback
and the insights of how that’s evolved for you
and again it’s been brilliant being a part of that story with you
and seeing what you’ve done and where you’ve got to
and we obviously talk about Financial Brain Care here
as you were talking there
I was just I was excited
cause you can just hear that sort of
permeating through what you’ve talked about
and to sort of round out our chat today
in this idea of sustainability
and what you’ve created in the business
we want more business owners and allied health practices
being like yourself sustainable and great businesses
great teams so that they can have the great outcomes
for their clientele I’d love for you to sort of share one or two
transformations or impact on
the clients
that you’ve had again
you don’t need to obviously give specifics
but just that general
any stories that have stuck in your mind that go
this is why I do what I do
and why we’ve built something like we’ve built that’s lovely sustainable
for having even more impact
yeah absolutely
I think, I just want to touch on a point you made there about sustainability
which is I think again
a mindset thing for health practitioners
is that making money is almost a bit of a dirty word
and I know I had to change my mindset around that actually
if you can’t get a reasonable income out of your work
then you can’t continue to maintain that
it’s not sustainable and that
as a private practice
you actually have obligations to make a profit if you are
you know it doesn’t have to be a huge profit
but it has to be a profit because otherwise, you’re essentially insolvent
and that’s no way to be
and you’re right by being able to understand
that you have to be financially sustainable
that allows you to continue to help people
which you just cannot do any other way
there’s no other way about it
you cannot get away without money being a part of
the factors and the conversation that you have
yeah I myself could probably at one time
if I was working full time and helping clients
I could help 30 people
at one time and we are helping 5 to 600 people
at any one time which is
that to me is just mind boggling that on my own I can do so little
really have such little impact
but with this wonderful team of people
we can have this enormous impact and
again going back to what I said at the beginning
our goal is not for people to keep coming to see us
our goal is for people to come see us
gain the skills and supports they need and then
go off being independently
self managing contributing
productive human beings in society
so, i feel like the benefits of that
in many different layers
in terms of the financial contributions to society
I mean yes
people are going back to work
people are not requiring as much funded
support as they might have needed previously
and one particular example I could give was
and I’m just picking one out of many
but was a lady who
lovely lady mother
a veteran and
actually I did all my sessions with her remotely over video conference
cause she lived in a different state to me
and she had a really debilitating chronic pain condition
and had lots of input from multiple different practitioners
she’d had lots of invasive procedures
I couldn’t work was very limited in what she could do
and really
by just teaching her some strategies for being able to manage
so self manage her pain
recognise her own patterns and habits and routines
and how tweaking those
and making small changes could actually have a better outcome for her
and yeah, by the end she was able to run
she was back at work and she was managing
her family and got to a point where she didn’t need to see me anymore
she was happy to go on and live her life
and that was great feeling for me
and I know it was great feeling for her too to feel confident in that
yeah, that is pure gold
and I’ve had sort of constant shimmering goosebumps coming over me
over the sort of last five minutes
as you shared that transformation
as one in 500 to 600 that you’re currently working with
but again there’s multiple times that
from this idea of being able to get people to be able to self manage
and tying that into the impact
and the contribution to society at large
of the ripple effect of that
those people and the example that you’ve just given there
that person then being able to support their family better
support the workplace better
wherever they’re working,
the flow on impacts of that is just
it’s mind boggling that and I really appreciate you really
sort of drawing that back to the idea of you
as one person you could do that for 30 people
which is great and that’s nothing sneeze at itself
that is great
but then being out to build something that is sustainable
and your approach to doing things and helping team members grow
and clients grow and be able to have something more
in what you wanna do and achieve is just absolutely brilliant
and I thank you for the contributions that you’ve given to
your communities and what you’ve shared
on this podcast as well
it’s just so inspiring to hear stories like yours
and to sort of wrap up I love for you to be able to share
if people want to reach out and connect
and going back to that networking idea
that we were talking at the start of the day
there’s so many things that can happen from networking
riffle effects and that you’ve even shared with us today
where’s the best place for people to find you
probably easiest place
is through our website which is
www.lifeworksot.com.au
and then you can find all our contact information there
awesome thank you for sharing that
we’ll obviously include that link for the website
and some of your other links as well in the show notes
so people be able to reach you there
I’m going to take a breath there’s just so many insights
I’ve got pages full of notes here
and that’s even after knowing you for a number of years now
so there’s so many great insights there
but once again
thank you Jacinta for sharing all those gold nuggets today
Oh, You’re welcome, Carig! Thanks for the opportunity
and thank you for your help in my business
really appreciate that!
I really appreciate you sharing that as well
and so that’s a wrap from the Healthy Business Lab Podcast here today
as always
like subscribe and continue the conversations that we’re having today. Bye!