These transcripts are AI-generated, and spelling may not be 100% accurate (especially for names, places, and methodologies).
sometimes it makes it easier to let go of these things that we
sometimes get tangled up and caught up in
where we think they’re really important
and when we can take a step back
see it from a different angle
we can often let go of things
and that’s the world that we live in these days
operates at such a fast paced and a sense of high demand
and we’ve got to be really productive
we’ve got to have a lot of output
we get caught up in this cycle of
stress that develops
we build up these expectations on ourselves and others
we put a lot of pressure on ourselves
Hello and Welcome to The Healthy Business Lab Podcast
where we interview amazing allied health business owners to
get their insights learn from each other
and basically just be connected with amazing people
and today I’m super excited to have Brendan Lo from
Livewise Wellbeing on the call today
Brendan welcome to this episode
Thanks for having me, Craig. It’s honour to be invited yeah
and I just had to invite you and again
I don’t always do an introduction and read off scripts and the like
but I came across Brendan through just LinkedIn
and when I read his about and I’ll just share a little bit now
I just had to talk with him
so a little bit about Brendan
from six and a half years
travelling as a scruffy backpacker in the 90’s
exploring 40+ countries on a shoestring
over two decades as an occupational therapist
lifelong martial artist
parent of children and dogs, avid gardener and SFS volunteer
I bring my whole crazy self into all that I do
that was just a brilliant introduction
and I’d love for you to elaborate that on that a little bit further Brendan
obviously, we’re very much talking allied health practice and business owners
and that’s a big component of what you do
but I love how you share that you bring everything about you into what you do
I think that Craig
that’s really what brought me to occupational therapy
is that an understanding that health
is more than just how our bodies travelling
and you know or just how our minds travelling
it’s the one discipline
when I was thinking about what I was going to study
I knew I was going to be a health professional
it’s the discipline that
encompasses the most philosophy and I believe in philosophy
not just as ideas but as a science
the way that our minds work, the way that we see the world
I always say it’s not just what you see
but it’s how you see it and I think OT for the Allied Health
gives a really special perspective on that
love that and again
I think it’s very much been my experience from both
working with a bunch of our occupational therapists
in both the business sense
but also in our family sense of navigating therapies and the like
as well and so I love that you’ve sort of touched on that
and coming from that what you’ve sort of talked about
there’s something we also love to share with our audiences
ways that people can look after themselves
as a business owner and bringing in that expertise
I love for you to sort of start of
what’s some things that you very much think everybody can leverage
and that you leverage from that background
and that expertise around looking after yourself
so that you can be the best person that you can be in your practice
but even just more widely
I’m a little bit addicted to taking care of
well being of myself and others
I start the day I mean
I’ve got my routine, I hop out of bed
I jump outside, I have a cold shower
or a cold plunge exercise
meditate I do all of those things
I eat well
I’m pretty good at putting stuff in my body and in my mouth
that even if it doesn’t taste great
if I think it’s going to be good for me
I’ll do it I think that comes from my childhood
chinese background and the idea that
because it teaches you the lessons and it often makes you stronger
but all of the physical stuff is no good without the right perspective
psychology focuses more on the mind
but there is this really simple level of experience as well
and what I’m really interested in life
is connecting with life at its core
all the way down to a cellular level
and I think being able to reflect on where we’re at
at a really small minute level
from the cellular to all the atoms that we’re made of into the really
really big where do we fit in
sit in the universe
and going backwards and forwards with that each day
we have to pay attention, pay our bills
understand that we’ve got to look left and right
before we cross the road
but being able to see the big picture and where we fit in it
in life and how life works and how it doesn’t work sometimes
one of the things that has been the biggest teacher for me in life
for living is actually death
and people often when I
I mention that people go ooh
this dude is dark but actually
quite the contrary that’s definitely not the case
absolutely I say bring it on
reflect on death daily because it actually helps shine the light
it helps us bring into perspective the things that we do
the way that we think and the next step that we take
I would say I had the privilege to sit with both my parents as they were dying
and both in a situation where my mother had a heart attack
and we didn’t have much time
and I just made it there before she passed away
to the other side of the spectrum with my father suffering cancer
where we had six months where we knew that he was terminal
and it really helped focus me
I find that reflecting on death
really brings me back to what’s really important
because on a daily basis it’s so easy to get distracted
to get pulled away from some of the things that really matter in life
by some of these things that have this attraction
and play on many of our vulnerabilities
and we just I think before we started the podcast
we talked about advertising
the power of marketing power of advertising and influence
yeah, there’s a reason why billions of dollars are thrown at it each year
is because it works
yeah, I will talk on some business stuff in a moment
but I love that sort of reflection
which again is something that people don’t talk about a lot
because of what you touched upon there
of some people think it feels dark
but I love the perspective
that you’ve put on that and the framing of if we think of death
having been in a sounds like a similar position to yourself
with my mum passing from cancer
and being there and those sort of moments
isn’t an amazing reflection and perspective and timelines
to kind of go where do we need to focus our time, energy
so again
love that you share that helping to shine the light
even if you’re talking about something that historically
people kind of have negative or dark connotations with
and so it’s interesting to flip that script a little bit
to get the benefits that you’ll get from sharpening that focus
yeah, I think very much that a modern western wave and
it’s often very sanitised and separated
we talked about me being a scruffy backpacker and in the
40+ countries that I’ve traveled in
over half of those have been developing nations
and in a lot of places
what I really loved is that life is laid out in front of you every day
and it’s a little bit messy sometimes and that’s how life is
in many places they don’t try to hide that
and they actually embrace it
especially in lots of parts of Southeast Asia, Africa
you see life and death every day
and when I travelled
I was 18 when I first put a backpack on and took off
I wanted to see not the world for these iconic sites
but I wanted to see how life operated
I wanted to see the different ways that people lived
and understand the similarities and the differences across the globe
and I really think that especially places where people are close
they’re more connected with the process of death is that I really
saw people embracing life
the understanding that where everything is impermanent
you keep coming back to that impermanence
sometimes it makes it easier to let go of these things that we
sometimes get tangled up and caught up in
where we think they’re really important
and when we can take a step back
see it from a different angle
we can often let go of things
and that’s the world that we live in these days
operates at such a fast paced and a sense of high demand
and we’ve got to be really productive
we’ve got to have a lot of output
we get caught up in in this cycle of
stress that develops
we build up these expectations on ourselves and others
we put a lot of pressure on ourselves
and I’ve done that
I’ve worked in we’ve all done that hectic jobs
and actually
the reason why I started Livewise Wellbeing
Services is because
I was in a very hectic job and I was a 9 to 5
I was working with
the most traumatized youth you can imagine
and the trauma part I was okay with that
I’ve done a lot of that over the years in various roles and positions
but the pace
my 9 to 5 that then started
at 8 and ended at 6
and then was going to 7
and then was going to 8
and still not feeling like I was able to keep up
and I think that’s an experience
like there’s so many of our allied health practice owners
and business owners out there
that have that similar feeling of the pace
there’s always more, there’s more people to see
there’s more people to help
given the world
we’re in and the pace is something that I think is very front of mind
so I’d love for you to sort of speak to
it’s kind of that
that business side and taking to where you’re going in business
and some of the things that you’ve done
I love that idea of the acknowledgement of impermanence
and been out of then take that into that
how we operate on a day to day basis
and it’s interesting that
if I then go back to one of the things you said a little bit earlier
of just taking stock and being able to sort of within ourselves
going down to the cellular level
as you were sort of talking about that
I know I just sort of immediately
sort of calm in that pace idea that you’ve touched upon
and she’s like yeah
there’s no need for that this is a sense and being
so I’d love for you to talk about in business and the like
we always talk about experiments here
but how have you experimented in the idea of impermanence in business
and where you’re going
and how you want to bring in that idea to what you do
this is not my first rodeo
Livewise Wellbeing is my second enterprise
just touch on the first one because
I’m really curious and interested in perspective
and the way we see things
I think a 3 o’clock in the morning quite a few years ago
I woke up with this brain fart
I had this idea that how do we share that
how do you have
those mental prompts that remind you about important things
to help keep us on track every day
and at this 3 o’clock in the morning idea was well where is a billboard
where is where is something that we see in front of us every day
most days that
where we could put a message to remind us to stay on track
and I’m not sure how I got there but
I came up with this idea that undies
we change our underwear most days
some go commando but those who wear undies
generally put them on and then take them off
and so I created this business called Smart Ass Undies
an underwear made out of recycled and organic materials
that had motivational messages on the back side
a little quirky with a touch of humour
but bringing age old wisdom matched with a modern vernacular and
I went pretty hard at that for quite a while
to try and push that and get that going
and get traction do the marketing
all of the social media and then I realized
while I was doing this
I was also working a day job that I was burning myself out
I was actually not doing
I was stepping further and further away
by trying to progress and make this something really viable
in a very short story
what I discovered I came across this barrier of the algorithms
so we talked about how magnificent technology i discovered
a less than beneficial side for myself because who knew that the word
I thought I did my due diligence with the name and the word ass
a double s to make sure it wasn’t going to unsettle the algorithms
and it all passed the name was approved by Facebook and Google
but what I didn’t realize is the algorithms
a little bit more quirky than that
even more quirky than me and that when you match images of bottoms
which is how you advertise underwear with the word ass
the algorithms decide that that’s sexually explicit content
and Kai Bosch all my marketing and I tried to fight that
I paid people to try and negotiate and work through with
trying to get in contact with somebody
a human from Facebook and Google
then I’ve just came to the realisation that this has had a life
and now it’s time to go yeah
but again that’s so many major learnings and just even that process
I guess is what I’m super curious of that going back to the
where the idea came from and what you’re trying to do
which kinda leads back to that idea of
how do we put something in front of people’s minds
how do we make it in a different way
how is it going to get attention
how are we going to draw that attention and then have the impact
that we want to have
a very interesting arc that you’ve gone through in that whole process
I think this part of it is a life stage
there is a time in your life to hustle
and but what I worked out is that time for me is not now anymore
and that’s a brilliant realisation as well in itself
isn’t it yeah
I was actually in Hong Kong at a party on the top of this building
with all of these million dollar sellers
and the conversations that were going on around hustling and
how to sort of
get to an audience and get your product out there
it just wasn’t me I was there in that moment
and I realised it’s like I enjoy talking to entrepreneurs
people who are creative and looking to do things in a different way
but what I realized is that
I’m not the person who really wants to push something on people
I really realised that social media is not for me
is that for myself not only
you do the marketing
you go on there and you’re posting stuff
but it’s too powerful for me to handle
because I felt you would pull me in
and then all of a sudden I’m looking at all these different stuff
and what people are doing in their life
and then thinking I’m not doing that
I should be doing that and so with Livewise Wellbeing
I was really clear that
I was going to have a completely different model to that
is that the Brendan today
the 50+ year old doesn’t want to work at that pace
and very fortunate
I feel very privileged at this time as an occupational therapist
where there I do no chasing of work and that
I have as many clients as
as I want I take them on when I feel comfortable to do that
it’s not the case with every business for sure
but that has been something that the NDIS has enabled
the well being coaching is same different
there are certainly lots of elements with
when I do the Wellbeing Coaching with people that I bring
that comes from my occupational work
but what I’d say with being coaching
it allows me to bring in so many more elements from life
that are on the peripheries
but still part of the traditional OT role
and the question you asked me earlier about
you know some of the things about staying well
I did mention perspective
but something that we first talked about when we first touched base
I was just about to head into silence for a week
which is something I aim to do every year
is to do a silent meditation retreat for seven days
I love it
but it’s only a snippet out of my life
and I have daily practice of meditation
I make sure I sit sometimes it’s only five minutes
sometimes it’s an hour
but what I really promote is these micro moments
and talking about technology
I now use technology to help me with that
that one device virtually everybody has
is my tool throughout the day to remind me to take a moment to breathe
and to just be and every time I go to pick up my phone
before I actually pick it up
I take three mindful breaths
I love that one and we were talking about that
and I had that note down from our very first conversation
and you mentioned that one
it’s one that’s stuck with me
of that notion of always been aware of conscious and meditate
and the simplicity of tag it to something
that you know is going to happen
and it’s the old habit building kind of idea
but mindset is just like I just a little reminder okay
let’s take those deep breaths
then I’m going to be calm
and I always so much smoother when I jump on the call or do it
I mainly do I don’t don’t do the phone calls
but it’s the the interview the zoom call or whatever it is
but just as you’re about to click into the room
then it’s exactly that taking taking three deep breaths and
makes a world of difference
absolutely, when I mention the social media you know
I really felt that pull
there’s this this that draw that you go
I’ve gotta check my phone and sometimes we go
I don’t even know what I’m checking it for
I don’t even know why I’m about to open it up
and then sometimes you’ll look at the screen and it’s like well
I don’t even sure which app I’m going to look at right now
I just felt this drive to pick it up
and those three mindful breaths
give me the chance as a circuit breaker
for that to go do I actually need to actually put it back down
yeah hundred percent or if I do get a message
it puts me in a position where when I do open it up
and I’ve heard that notification
that I have a little bit more clarity when I
look at it
I love that and that clarity is super interesting
I’ll circle back to the business sort of things
as to what you were talking about before
of moving into doing your OT work and the coaching work
and doing it at your pace and coming out of the word pace
and just sounds like you just been very intentional with it
and know that if I do this from here is a point to my
heart for those listening rather than watching
but as you sort of come from that place
then everything just sort of flows from there
and it just sounds like by tuning in to yourself
and doing it in your way and being out of incorporate that multitude
a multifaceted you then everything seems to be working for you
and no doubt the outcomes that you’re getting for the all the
people that you’re working with are probably exponential
as a result of that is that a fair comment
absolutely, when you can be true to yourself and you got, oh!
I can do things and bring the best parts of me to it
and I can share that with others
then it becomes less effort
now work is work you’ve got to put effort in
there are times where you have to be disciplined
but when you’re doing something that you truly believe in
it certainly makes it a hell of a lot easier yeah
and if we’re touching upon that as you’re finding it easier
therefore you can give more and the like
I’d love for you to sort of share
we always love to share some of the work that our guests are doing
and the transformations and the impact that they have
I’d love for you to
give an example of something that sticks out in your mind of
the transformations that you see in place by being out of
relay sort of some of those
your own experiences and expertise
with the people that you work with
see I thought about that and I
there’s somebody I’ll call them Jack
that I’ve been engaged with that when I first met them
they had a daily
soft drug habit and they weren’t doing any exercise
they were about to become a parent
they were somebody who was really driven actually
when I met them they were a very passionate vegan
but also a very passionate pot smoker
and we just started talking about life
what’s important and what are the things that you
digging down to what you really want out of life
this person had a lot of difficulties in their family with their
particularly with the father
they wanted to be a very different parent
they wanted their children to have a very different experience
in life we move to
for you to be you want to be a different dad
what needs to happen for that to happen
the coaching part is part giving suggestions and ideas
but the other part of people tuning through
and working through things themselves
just providing that right
little nudge here and there to guide them in their thought process
and it’s like oh
well maybe I should
take care of myself better
and I certainly didn’t want his children to
lead a life of a daily pot smoking
we talked about a lot of things
we did a few things
the person actually was able to come and do
a physical workout with me
and a lot of people I connect with
it’s like this over video call
however this person lives in the area
and we did a we did a little
exercise, some training
and I said burpees a lot of people hate burpees
I say I have moments where I do too
but it’s a really pretty simple exercise with a
several different movements in it that you can do quickly
and you can do it anywhere
you don’t need a lot of equipment
moving on this person now scares me
they’ve gone in a positive way on it
in a positive way from smoking pot every day to now
they will get out and I think at one stage
you’ve done like 500 burpees in a session
his kids are older now and they’re involved in exercising with him
but it’s not just the exercise
it’s the way that he talks about life with them now
and another part of me and coaching and supporting people in is
around longevity and lifespan
but very much around health span
and if you want to be I say for me
my goal is to my kids are
one of them’s an adult now
and one of them is soon to get their driver’s license
that scares me a little too
but I want to be around for the next stage to be a grandparent
so we talk about what do you need to do to get there
and then that idea that exercise is you hear it everywhere
everybody knows it
it is almost a panacea for most so many health conditions
mind and body
but it can be hard to get ourselves to do something
and the other little thing I encourage people
to do as a little strategy
when you’re starting out something to change and improve your health
is to start really have something to anchor to that’s really small
instead of setting massive goals
or you might have your long term goals
but really start with a micro goal
and I have this thing where I say start with one
start if it’s about developing a meditation practice
start with one breath say I’m going to sit or I’ll start with one minute
I’m going to sit or I’m going to stay still
and just try to be really present for one minute
or I’m going to do one burpee
and to set up a good habit is actually just to start
and actually to form the habit first
even if it’s like OK
I’m going to get up each day and exercise
and I’m going to set the goal that I’ll do one burpee
I’ll do one minute on the exercise bike
and you go and most people start and they go oh
well that was pretty easy yeah
I’ll do two minutes I’ll do three minutes
I’ll do four minutes
and most people don’t do the one minute just for one minute
but if you do you get that positive reward
the brain goes dumps a little serotonin some dopamine going hey
I did what I said I was going to do and if you do more
awesome brilliant
and that’s so good and I got so many little gold nuggets for that
last little section as well as the whole chat
actually micro moments were sticking in my mind around that was
the idea to 1 is harder than 1 to 100
and if you do that one
then it’s just that domino effect at the end of the day
the snowball builds and builds and builds
but going back to your notion there of
longevity and health span rather than lifespan
I just love that simple little different tweak and the perspective
which again what I love that you’ve shared
on the chat today is just those tweaks to perspectives
that has definitely got me ticking over here
we talk about when business side of things
you know sustainability and it’s in that same idea of okay
we got business sustainability
but what’s the health span for ourselves as individuals
but what’s the health span of our business
is it healthy, is it sustainable
and what we’re all about here is I’ve seen the transformations that
similar to what you’ve been out to share
and that’s what we want
all our allied health business owners out there
want to be able to create these lovely healthy
sustainable lives and practices
and so we can keep on serving our clients
I have a business model that I can do
I don’t have this idea that I’m going to stop and retire
I have this idea that especially with
the well being coaching is that
I hope that I’m only going to get better at it
as I learn more and I experience more of that aging process
than I hope to be able to share more with people
is that an insight is not something that comes accidentally
it just doesn’t come just because you age
but when you’re in this world longer gives you more opportunity
there’s more opportunities to see those
yes, to work on becoming wiser
and seeing things in different ways and learning more
and so you can share well
on that note thank you so much for your time
and sharing what you have shared so far
and as this podcast evolves and grows
and again this is a part of an experiment to do at least
100 episodes
see the conversations and the impact we’re having
I hope that we’re able to go beyond that 100
and I’m sure as I could continue talking with you for hours Brendan
it’s been so many great little nuggets and things that I’m picking up
that I’m going to be implementing
or tweaking my perspectives on a little bit
I really appreciate what you’ve shared here today
that’s awesome I think what you’re doing is great
connecting with health professionals
bringing them in sharing ideas
that’s how we all grow I love that
I appreciate that! and if people do want to connect with you
where is the best place for people to reach out and connect with you
so that we can drop it into the show notes
and make sure that we expand our network
certainly LinkedIn
it’s still a social media platform
but it is one that I do go on occasionally and certainly not daily
but email is probably
the most direct way definitely
so I’m happy to share my email address if people are curious about what I do
I’m always happy to have a chat
and a little exploration of who I am
and if what I do suits other people
I like to understand and learn about people
so good, we’ll be doing that we’ll drop the email address and LinkedIn profile into the show notes
so that all the other allied health practitioners
and anybody else who comes across these conversations
I’d highly recommend having a chat with Brendan
that’s a wrap here from The Healthy Business Lab podcast for today
make sure you like, subscribe
and to keep on hearing more
great insights and learnings from people in the space
thanks again Brendan
Many thanks, Craig. Have a great one!
you know you have to take the bitter in life and