Designing a Values-Led Therapy Business

These transcripts are AI-generated, and spelling may not be 100% accurate (especially for names, places, and methodologies).

 

I just have this inner inkling of

that there are always solutions to be found in nature and creation

and just getting as close to that as possible

is somehow really beneficial and what we kind of need

and so actually just even in the last week

I’ve learned even more about this that

the words whole and holistic and healthy and even holy

they’re actually all have the same root about being unbroken and whole

 

Hello and Welcome to The Healthy Business Lab Podcast

where we interview awesome

allied health business owners to share their learnings

their insights in running and growing their practices

and today I’m super excited to

introduce somebody that I’ve known for a number of years now

Crystel Poggioli from The Whole Child

Welcome to the podcast episode, Crystel

Thank You Craig

I’m really excited to be here and catch up

yeah it’s been a little while since we’ve spoken

but again

I love for you to share a little bit of your expertise and background

a little bit more about you and your business there at The Whole Child

yeah I’m looking forward to doing that

I guess I’m here at The Whole Child today

which we are a private practice that delivers

mostly occupational therapy services to children and families

so like 0 to 18 year olds-ish

we say up in Atherton Tablelands

a long way up north

about an hour and a half from Cairns up the mountains

so not as hot as Cairns beautiful area of the world

I guess occupational therapy

OTs will know that

we consider ourselves a holistic practice

that considers the whole person

but I like to think that I’ve taken that to the next level

with my passions for natural health

as well as 

It’s just different elements that really do consider the whole person

in a really big way

so yeah, I love that

and I think I’ve been talking to a number of OTs recently

and it is that kind of

I was just speaking with

another one of our guests that we’ve got uh

coming up as well talking about of all the allied health modalities

the OT space is quite often thought of as covers the whole

a little bit more than some of the others

that are a bit more directed and

and targeted in certain areas of what they do

but I’d love for you to delve a little bit deeper on that

your approach and how you have taken things to that next level

and I sort of want to put it through the lens of things that

business owners and I know

your focus mainly children there

but it’s that

idea of things that we can take away from the natural spaces

and you alluded to some of your approaches to that area

but dig a little bit deeper into that expertise

and how you do go even more broadly

and how that can apply to anybody

yeah well

I guess this journey of bringing it all together with OT

it kind of stemmed from a long term

passion that I’ve had for natural health

I just have this inner inkling of

that there are always solutions to be found in nature and creation

and just getting as close to that as possible

is somehow really beneficial and what we kind of need

and so actually just even in the last week

I’ve learned even more about this that

the words whole and holistic and healthy and even holy

they’re actually all have the same root about being unbroken and whole

and I think that’s what we’re really yearning for in a way

I guess so for me

having a private practice

grew out of this desire to kind of merge my OT skills

with my passion for natural health

as well as my passion for really down to earth

approaches with kids like just getting down and playing with them

we do try to use nature therapy and nature based

or nature inspired sort of therapy ideas when and where we can

we’ve just had it kind of feels like we’ve had about two years of rain

so that’s been a little bit harder

but sometimes we’ll just get wet and go

you know go outside anyway and get wet

or we might bring the nature inside and use it in that way

but I guess for me

having a private practice has allowed me to bring that all together

and keep learning as well

something else that I’ve trained in is

called gut and psychology syndrome

and that’s all about healing and sealing the gut lining

and the health of our gut lining

and our digestive system

really links strongly to the presentation

and the difficulties that we’re having

whether it’s related to a diagnosis or just disease

or you know things not going so well within our body,

our soul, our spirit kind of thing

so yeah

I love that there’s so many things I love to sort of dig into

you mentioned a few of those things and 

any little tips that

fellow business owners can bring into

even their own life of getting back to nature

bringing the outside nature in or getting out

that’s going to help them just be better

feel better to be able to do what they do

and then be of a better service to their clientele

because they’re feeling better themselves

any quick little ideas and takeaways that you could share

yeah, well I do feel like actually this is probably the forte of the OT

we’re kinda really good at this stuff

so when we’re doing it well

hopefully we do it for ourselves as well

and kinda weave in those

holistic approaches that really help us into our daily rituals

and habits I guess I do love

like to kind of nurture myself in a number of different ways

but for me even just some really simple ones

maybe it is cause it’s rained up here a lot recently

but just making sure to try and get some sunshine

and to really see the sun

like the sun’s really pretty amazing

it actually we know that it discourages

growth of yucky bacteria and stuff like that

so it’s actually really amazing to get out and have some sunshine

probably

my greatest encouragement to people is to just keep on searching

to think of coming at things from a number of different angles

and approaches and for me

I love to just lean into what is the sort of simplest

most natural solution kind of thing

and I feel like kind of thought of this term like the wholeness weave

like rather than a framework sort of

it’s just more like of an organic weave

of kind of

weaving in your ideas of things that help from many different angles

so yeah, that’s brilliant

I love those two little points there

I know it’s something again referencing a couple of chats

it’s probably a nice alignment of

speaking with you here

that sunshine sort of things where we’re a bit further south than

middle of winter

but the sun’s been out and it’s like that feeling when you do get out

and quite often we can be stuck in our office

or listeners to be stuck in the practice

wanting to see so many clients

but not taking that break in the time out and other

getting natural light into the practice or

just getting out and getting

the sun onto the skin and those sorts of things

so that’s a great little reminder of that yeah

I need to be reminded of it myself

cause I can forget too, you know

well 100% how you did say it’s like

these are things that I’m aware of and I try to practice

we are all human as well so again

in verbalizing things sometimes makes it go hey

he’s front of mine here’s how we can look after ourselves

yeah, then that notion of the

wholeness weave

I love that! The visual that as soon as you’ve said that

I was thinking of a tapestry

and the interflowing threads that are in something like that

it’s a lovely way to think of that

and it was the what’s the simplest way that I can do this

and what’s the simplest or most natural way that I can do something

so is that something that you just consciously have imprinted that hey

a new thought process a new something

a new idea and then you just put that lens through it

as a part of your standard process?

to be honest I’m actually working on a book at the moment

so there’s been a lot of reflection

it’s kind of like

I feel like I’m learning that when you’re writing on a book

you really do think really deeply about what

you’re doing

and I’ve been working on the book for a couple of years

so I’ve only just recently kind of

feel like I’ve bought it all together in that way

so the books called “Whole Child, Whole Family”

and my initial idea was like

how do I figure out a framework

because I feel like I’m often telling the people that I see

the same things over and over

the practitioners that I’m supervising

often teaching them those same things

and then even I guess because as a mum I’ve raised six children

very healthy sort of natural strategy

like if someone’s sick nobody’s ever had Panadol

I would generally go to the pantry or my remedy kits

and so just a way of bringing that all together

that’s what I wanted to be able to do

cause I feel like people often ask me

how would you deal with this

how would you deal with that

what should you use for this

and I wanted to be able to bring it all together

but it’s a lot to bring together

so it kind of does feel a little bit like I’m trying to

all these different threads together

and eventually that’s just a recent thing that I’ve kind of gone

because I had this idea that it would be like a framework

but then a framework didn’t feel like a framework

felt way too structured and yeah

felt a bit like a list of a things of like

you need to make sure you’re doing this

this and this and this

but it’s actually really not like that at all when you’ve got children

with any kind of challenges

or having that in the context of the family as well

so yes the weaving idea kind of felt like oh

that’s much more what it feels like

and then that does allow for

there to be sometimes little loose strands that

we just haven’t got to that yet

the loose threads that needs to be shuffled a little bit

we’re working on this little bit here

we’re kind of linking that in here

I kind of felt like that was a lot more of

what my practice feels like and also my journey as a mum as well

and yeah

that’s so good and

I think you started to work in

we love to hear of experiments that business owners there have

and the like, and writing a book is guess a form of a experiment

I love to hear other experiments in your business

in sharing what you do and growing it and serving

your clientele there

what other sort of experiments have you gone through over the years

that you’ve had some learnings from

I guess

the things that come to my mind

are some of the different approaches that we’ve learned about

and I don’t know if people are listening

they won’t be able to see this

but I’ll just quickly swivel the camera this way

cause there’s one approach that I got to learn

which is called sand play

therapy and they’re all little symbols

we’ve got sand trays

so I’m careful not to step in sand not talking to you

so learning sand play therapy was really cool

that opened up a different realm of therapy for me

because we do a lot of mental health work

so that was a great area for me to learn

and I still use it a lot,

because a lot of that mental and emotional weight that people carry

it’s not very easy to put into words

it’s a type of therapy that doesn’t really use talking

it’s just really using those symbols to unpack things without

thinking of it too rationally

that opened up a lot for me

and I guess probably my experiments

in the practice have been driven by having clients with needs

that I’m just aware that actually

which it’s just like we’re just not touching it really

we’re not kind of getting where we need to get

I’m not really sure if we’re really helping yet

and so that’s kind of led me to different approaches

so sand play’s a big one non violent communications

a big one and collaborative proactive solutions is a big one

and gaps the gut and psychology syndrome

so probably for me I love learning other people’s approaches

and even in my book

I definitely wouldn’t claim that I know everything

I probably hope that in the book that I’ll also point to

some of these other really fantastic

approaches that have been such a help to us

using those with families

and so a lot of the experiments I’m hearing is very much driven by

the observation, the feedback loops

that we’re getting from the people that we’re working with

and kind of going okay

there’s got to be more to it here

so then it’s the exploration phase that then 

you’ve gone through

what might actually work in this situation

and therefore you then sort of

just work through of learning and experimenting to go hey

is this working in this scenario

and then you just basically build on from that is that a fair approach

a fair comment

around the approach that you generally take with your experiments

yes I think so

cause

I think our clients are definitely not a cookie cutter kind of thing

that I can do something with this child

and that a child coming to me with similar issues

that I can do the same things

and it’s going to work sometimes

I’ve even tried that with siblings and have it absolutely fall

completely it will be the same issues

but this the next sibling I’ve tried it and just gone oh, okay

I can just tell from the look on their face

this has missed the Mark big time definitely

so it’s an ongoing journey of discovery and which is really fantastic

and yeah it’s great

when you do find things that are keys to breakthrough

and that sort of covers it off

I love that approach with the delivery side of the business

we’ll touch more on getting the outcomes

for the clients as well but then

as far as then evolving and growing your practice

so that you could serve more

people and have more impact in your local area up there

what sort of other experiments have you done on the business side

of things knowing you for a while now

you’ve done a couple of really cool ones and again

your people side of growing

your team has been an interesting evolution

yeah definitely

because I’m a mum of six and we’ve homeschooled

so my business literally started like

at a little desk next to the fridge

and then the desk got too full

so the desk had to move into the lounge room

kind of just kept expanding and expanding

and probably the biggest experimental change for me was employing staff

and that was kind of someone who’s still with me Sarah

she’s absolutely brilliant OT and she was moving here from Mount Isa

and was looking for a job in pediatrics

and I remember she reminds me that I said to her

I’m not sure if I would have enough work to employ anybody

like I’ve got a little waiting list

but I’m not sure if I can sustain it

and my family need to be able to eat

so I’ll try and we’ll see how we go

and she reminds me of that cause that was only six years ago and

I thought I might have to employ a part time

but have employed her full time

that was a big learning curve

and so we now have a small team of amazing practitioners

Sarah and I got to design and fit out a purpose built clinic

which is really I guess another experiment and that’s been fantastic

we’re lucky enough to be very close to a creek and state forest

so we can access that area

we’ve got also a garden and a cubby out in another area

we’ve got a few areas where we can kind of be outside

another area where we can get really messy with the kids

and I have to like tell you a secret here

that it’s actually the other OTs that love to get really messy

I love being outside in nature but like

they just love slimy yucky things and I’m like

oh! do we really have to do slime

do we really have to do really gross stuff

but anyway the kids love that and they love doing that

so messy play arty sort of creative therapy

when I did start employing people

I wanted it to be a place that felt like their dream job

cause I remembered in my career having jobs that

I felt like I was a bird put in a cage with my wings tied up

and I couldn’t really do the things that I thought would be helpful

and there was a lot of constraints

and I remembered how different it felt

when I’ve had a private practice

and could do the things that I thought

had the freedom to do

the things that I thought would make a difference

that has always been for me

a really huge thing that I want it to be their dream job

where they get to bring their passions in

it’s not just my ideas and we’ll do it Crystel’s way with

they’re going to do the things that they love to do

which is sometimes things like slimy and messy and like that I’m like

I just I don’t want to do that sort of therapy but they love that

and so we’ve made spaces for those sorts of things 

yeah! for team members to do what works for them in how they go about

and I guess I’d love to to delve into that a little bit more obviously

where you’re located being able to get as you have grown

being able to get team members on board and waiting list and grow

and being able to then service that need that you’ve got

awareness in the region up there

for the amazing work that you do

I know you’ve done some experimenting in how you’ve recruited as well

trying to get those quality team members

yeah definitely

the Atherton Tablelands is an incredible place actually

it’s the type of place where people will often say

we travelled around Australia and then we came here and we thought

I want to live here so it’s that type of place

it’s actually pretty cool in our community

there are lots of people who have expertise in their field

like their world class or the best in Australia in many

many different fields it’s quite an incredible place

but if you don’t know that

it’s very hard to convince someone to move here from a city

so recruitment is difficult Australia wide

I would say I was very lucky in that Sarah

that was her plan along with her husband

they had gone to Mount Isa

with the plan of saving up to come and live in Nathead

and that’s what they wanted to do

but after that I guess the more OTs it’s like the more work we do

the more demand we create

and so we’ve created a waiting list

and we wanted to look for more people

so we’ve one big experiment in that way

we did was sponsoring an OT from overseas

Anfriel’s from the Philippines and she’s been with us four years

and yeah we’ve had a brilliant experience in doing that

she’s an excellent OT much loved in our community

and very sadly at the end of the year

sad for us excellent for her because this is another thing about OTs

it’s all about living your best life and living your dream

and she’s only ever been a paediatric OT

and you can tell she’s just gifted at it

but she’s also got this other passion to do with marine studies

and the ocean so

she’s actually going to take a year to go and study that

next year at the Gold Coast

and it might be that those two worlds merge back again for her

I do say to her like keep me in mind

maybe there will be some way thomething could happen 

beach therapy and opportunities

I guess what I like to just circle back there as far as you know

it’s a big commitment and it’s a big experiment

how did you find the process of working through something like that

because again

you saying what we’re talking about before you you see a need

you see a gap there’s a challenge how do we approach that

and you’ve looked at something a little bit differently

because you want to be able to serve more and more people

what did you learn from that experience of recruiting

different to probably 90% of OT businesses Australia wide

are looking at well

actually I’m just in the process

I’ve just started again because we know that Anfriel’s leaving

and a couple of our team are having babies

which is lovely so

we’re in the process of recruiting

a male OT and his wife to come from Bangladesh

I’m kind of reminded of all of the process

that there is a lot of paperwork

and it’s also not cheap it’s an investment

and one of the biggest things

I think we found was that it’s a little bit

I guess for me maybe the age that I am

it feels a little bit like having an adult foster child

cause you’ve got to teach them everything about living in Australia

so we taught Anne Friel how to drive

that was quite hilarious experience

she went driving with my mum and she came back and she said Crystel

your mum just kept saying go faster

go faster go faster

go faster and I went to mum and said

why are you telling her to keep driving so fast

like it’s really unsettled her

and my mum said Crystel

it was an 80 kilometer zone and we were doing 20 kilometers per hour

and I kept telling her to go faster

and we finally got up to 40 kilometers per hour

and I kept telling her to go faster

so we helped with all learning about Medicare tax that is done really

differently here superannuation also

like there’s a lot to learn really to live in Australia

and yeah that’s a big thing

one of the key points that again

at the end of the day it’s a bit of an investment

was what you sort of said there

but that’s where I love that comment because it goes to show well

you realise that your people are an investment

and you are investing in your people

and by doing that recruitment approach that you

are doing

it’s bringing it front of mind where you go

a lot of people out there don’t think of their people as hey

we’re investing in that and the like

but you’re very conscious of it at the front

this is an investment we are doing it

and we’re going to

do all these things to make sure that they can be the best

that they can be for the business

but it can actually be a great benefit and a development

and what I’m hearing as well is you’re very much a part of their life

your team’s life

of how can we develop them so that we can give opportunities

whether it’s inside or even outside of the business

yeah definitely

I would say that was something I learned really early on that this

the employees or the staff

or the team members are as important as the clients

so looking after them really well like without them I guess

especially cause we’ve grown to have a small team

so then without that team

then we don’t have so we can’t do what we love to do

so I put a lot of energy actually into learning

that was a new learning curve for me

and so I invested in having some HR coaching with your wife Lauren

so which was really awesome

just I guess and I was actually struck by how many times

Lauren would give me advice

that sounded just like

the type of things that we

OTs would recommend for children and parents

but I was just struck by how much of the communication skills

and how much was really similar

to those other sort of skills that OTs would use anyway

but it was just that I needed someone to help me see it with

how to really build a positive team environment

and build really good relationships with individual team members

and things like that because you need to be able to talk

about sometimes stuff that’s really hard

or even

there’s been a number of different

things happen in recent times that will impact the business

I say even for example

with staff changes and with NDIS changes

and we need to be able to talk about that and

figure out ways to make decisions

together as a team I love that

I love that!

I know that you’ve experimented with investing in your own

learning on that business side of things

and you touch one of the people there

and I know it’s again you got a lot of the knowledge over there

it’s just how can you get that extra little bit

and put the business lens on it

because you’ve got the lot of people skills and the communications

how to ask great questions and

get those sort of information

but then when we put a business lens on it 

it’s something that again

you’ve done quite well through experimenting and investing in

support around those business side of things

definitely

I would say I have probably applied for every grant that existed

I would say and I was successful with some of them

but also sometimes it was grant funding

but other times it was just investment

but I’ve always invested a lot in coaching

especially in areas that I feel like are my weak spots

because I think most allied health training definitely OT

we learnt no business skills whatsoever

so I knew I needed to learn a lot

and I read every book that I could find

and actually one of my admin officers

after I employed my first staff member

she and I was trying to make payroll

but the payments for services hadn’t yet come in and she said to me

oh Crystel

I’ve just read this book Profit First and you need to read it

that was something that started I did read it

but I struggled to implement it and I thought well

I’m going to try to do this well

because it’s not my forte

it’s not

numbers are not really an aspect of the business that I really

enjoy looking at well

at that time they weren’t actually these days 

can’t find it fun

that’s thanks to lots of time spent together

and figuring out ways to make it feel less stressful

and to just feel like an easier thing to look at the numbers yeah

I love that and that’s obviously how we got connected back in the day

all those many years ago that I alluded to earlier on

for those watching I have the Profit First Book over my

shoulder there but again

it’s a testament to yourself of evolving, growing

wanting to learn with the end outcome of going

how can I look after more people

how can I have a more impact

how can i sustainably grow a practice

and again you’ve experimented

you’ve tweaked you’ve refined

and even the stuff that we’ve done on our financial side

and I know some of the people stuff you’ve done

it’s just been that evolution

nothing happens overnight

and the like and so that’s been brilliant

so many cool experiments and that’s why I love talking to you

there’s been so many things that you’ve done you’ve tested

you’ve tried you’ve learned from over over the years

and you can again see where this is going for you and moving forward

I love for you to just to round out our conversation now

and to talk an example of the

transformations that you’ve seen with clientele again

you don’t need to give specifics for

giving away any private information and the like

but just the from the work you’ve done and how you approach it

and very much 

that nature based sort of avenue that you go down there

I’d love to hear some of the transformations

of what you’ve been able to achieve with your

clientele

yeah, so there’s probably a few clients that come to my mind maybe

cause they’ve had the biggest transformations

and actually I’m not seeing them now

which is great

that cause that’s the aim of my game is to not be needed

but for each of these ones in my mind

some of the toughest stuff was

I don’t like using the word behaviour so much

but I guess for want of better words

their behaviours were really difficult and very aggressive

very violent different for each of them

but you know violence towards property

to the point of needing lots of home renovations frequently

or violence to other family

members

to the point of needing emergency services and things like that

or violence towards self so and really extreme ways

so very violent challenging behaviours

and I guess it’s always kind of meeting people

where they’re at and figuring out

what approaches they might be interested in using

for each of those kids one of the biggest things I did

which is what we would do with every client

and that is building therapeutic relationship

so which often comes through what they’re really drawn to

so with each of those kids

they would still consider me someone that I’d be really close to

and a real person who was just there

just for them in that time

sometimes that did mean

I do remember going on bush walks and stuff like that

with one of them who’s really

does kind of love to really obsessed with spiders

I was like

we’re going on a bush walk with one deal and if we see spiders

we’re not bringing them back we’re not touching them

but through using approaches like collaborative proactive solutions

which is a way of

trying to just figure out some practical things that the

child is finding difficult to do

that other people would probably like them to do

that is probably leading to those really tough behaviours

and trying to find out from them oh

what’s up with that like

I noticed that it seems really hard for you to go and feed the dog

what’s up with that like what does make that so hard

and really hearing from them about why that is hard and then work

and so really really really hearing from them why it’s hard

which often especially with teenagers they must go I don’t know

so it takes a little bit to figure out it’s a long process so again

yeah transformations don’t happen overnight do they

no and then

working together with them to figure out solutions ’cause

when they understand what’s difficult

and when you understand then the solutions are often really simple

so with each of those three kids using that process

as well as we use something called non violent communication

which is really cool

it’s actually probably something our world might needs a lot

whole lot more of

it’s about considering that

tough feelings relate to tough

underlying needs that haven’t been understood  or met

using those two main approaches

some of the families also looked at gut health

we tended to be inside or outside in really varying ways

both of all three of those kids saw really big transformation

one of them it was just from one week till the next

stop destroying the house literally

so it’s that powerful that once you’ve done

implemented these strategies

that it you can literally go from destroying the house to okay

we’re not destroying the house now like

could we look at handwriting or something like that

give me goosebumps cause a couple minutes ago

I said transformations don’t happen overnight

and I’ll claim that that wasn’t overnight

but one week to go from that sort of experience 

two of those three kids did have that really quick transformation

like by the next session it’s like

oh okay

things have drastically settled

when you just kind of keep working

through different issues then

but the kids are building yeah

the kids are building skills

and so they can also learn that okay

when challenges crop up in life

I can figure out how to handle this

like there’s a way to handle it

I don’t have to fall apart and destroy everything around me

I can figure out how to handle it

that is so good

and I think it’s a great encapsulation of what we want to share here

we want more amazing practitioners like yourself

and business owners out there

create those transformations

and really appreciate you sharing

your stories, your insights

and again some of the experiments you’ve gone

because we want people building amazing practices

employing more people giving access and growing teams,

educating team members and all these sorts of wonderful things

that you’re doing there I really appreciate you sharing those stories and insights

yeah, it’s fun to reflect and we’re also

looking for people to join us

for people who think that just sounds amazing

like that was going to be my next comment yeah

100% I was going to make that comment

if people wanted to connect with you

reach out to you and explore the opportunity

to work in an amazing part of

Australia where is the best place for for people to find you and connect with you

if they have a look at our website www.thewholechild.com.au

they’ll see a lot more about our team and what we do

and feel free to get in touch

I would say that for people who are passionate about PEDs

and about bringing their passions into their practice then

definitely just get in touch at any time when 

you’re hearing this

because we go through seasons where we will be actively recruiting

like right now but then at other times

depending on what’s happening for the right person

where it was just a really good fit

then it wouldn’t need to be that

we had a position open and a position advertised

I love that

obviously we’ll include

the website and any other little contact points

they’re in the show notes

and I do highly encourage people connect with you Crystel

because again you’re doing some amazing things up there

thank you so much for joining us today

yeah thank you so much Craig

it’s been really really good fun to

just have a chat

it has been so we’ll wrap up that chat here

thank you once again for listening there

and again as always

make sure you like subscribe to

make sure you keep on hearing amazing insights from amazing people

just like Crystel

that’s over and out from The Healthy Business Lab Podcast

Bye, thank you